[Doomy]

I recall Axel saying Roxas made him feel like he had a heart, and Sora did the same. But this is something else.

In the scene in which Axel lets Namine escape intentionally, he starts laughing, then seems absolutely shocked, and says something to the effect of "Wait. Am I... Enjoying this? You guys are something else."

Enjoyment and surprise, both authentic. Just how heartless is Axel?

[Ryusuke]

He may not have real "emotions", but it just comes with his personality. It's like a person who tries too hard to change, but when it comes down to it, that trait that they hate is still apart of them. Though, that's a bit different.

All in all, it's all Axel. Nothing really happened to him during his stay as a Organization member. It was boring (to him), until something stirred up, and here, he's enjoying the chaos.

It's like Larxene enjoying Sora's pain, Vexen getting angry, and Zexion being scared of Riku. They want, they hate, they fear, etc. If it isn't emotion, they were definitely thinking it and it's just what they are.

Perhaps, everyone is just fooling themselves that Nobodies don't have emotions or whatever comes with having a heart. I don't really know for sure.

[Resonance]

The whole point of Kingdom Hearts is the question "What is a heart?"

What does it do, what gives it strength, what gives it weakness.

Even though the Nobodies don't have hearts, they 'remember' what it was like to have one. So they remember their emotions and their personalities...how their hearts felt when those said emotions arose.

I've always wondered about Axel too. And more questions are arising with Roxas and Zion (Or whatever her name is). Do you have to have a heart to display emotion?

The heart's 'memory'...That'll probably become very important.

[Grassy]

He made me feel... like I had a heart. It's funny... you make me feel... the same...

That's about the gist of it. Nothing really there but it was a special type of bond.

Nobodies act on memories. If they see someone that they remember as the kind of person they would hate as their original selves, they act like that, regardless of how they don't actually feel it.

[Chaos_Riku]

Or maybe simply Xemneas just told them they could not feel emotion because of their hearts because simply could not? it's not hard to get a set of people to believe something if it's easy to manipulate them, look-at a certain psycho a few decades back who proclaimed that a whole nationality was to be exterminated.

[Dark Heartless Cloud]

Axel MIGHT be starting to feel emotion because I heard from SOMEWHERE that when he dies in KHII He doesn't fade to Darkness or something along those lines. Or maybe its what the heart remembers to be those emotions? Who knows... Apparently Namine doesn't have a heart yet she still wanted to protect Sora with all her "Heart" when Marluxia wanted to destroy his memories to destroy his heart. Also...after Sora's little speech about getting Namine to be happy she giggles. Giggling=happy,funny which is an emotion. I'm starting to believe there is more to the nobodies then this stupid "Don't have a heart" thing. More might be revealed in the next KH?

[Doomy]

Most likely, Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days will reveal a lot about the true nature of a Nobody. Maybe SE emphasizing it with the Axel cutscene was to give us a glimpse of what is yet to come.

[Dark Heartless Cloud]

Hopefully... and I'd really like to see Roxas and Namine in the big KH3. As in living a life separate from their counterparts

[Goofy5555]

Axel MIGHT be starting to feel emotion because I heard from SOMEWHERE that when he dies in KHII He doesn't fade to Darkness or something along those lines. Or maybe its what the heart remembers to be those emotions? Who knows... Apparently Namine doesn't have a heart yet she still wanted to protect Sora with all her "Heart" when Marluxia wanted to destroy his memories to destroy his heart. Also...after Sora's little speech about getting Namine to be happy she giggles. Giggling=happy,funny which is an emotion. I'm starting to believe there is more to the nobodies then this stupid "Don't have a heart" thing. More might be revealed in the next KH?

Isn't Namine Kairi's nobody? I imagine that Kairi would react in much the same way were she to be put in a similar situation that involved Sora being endangered in some way.

[Cixer]

I've always wondered about Axel...I think that Roxas has a Heart (Ven's Heart, to be precise), but I think Axel is complete Nobody. Maybe Axel's connection to Roxas makes it similar to him having a Heart.

I don't really understand the way Nobodies work. They have no Hearts, and yet they can remember things. Memories are supposed to reside within a Heart, no? They can also feel some kinds of emotions, but could these really just be shadows of emotions? In other words, fake emotions?


Which makes me wonder about the ending of Sora's Re:CoM story...at the end, right after Sora remembers Kairi, a tear is seen running down Namine's face.

Aren't tears signs of strong emotion (in this particular case, sadness/joy)?

[pokeslob]

just an interesting side note: there was a 358 pic that lead me to beleive that Xion is Kairi's heartless (because she had one), and Axel might be Riku's nobody, but who knows

anyway answering the question: Everybody in the Organization wants emotions so they are constantly trying to fool them selfs into beleiving they have em. so they;re telling lies to themselfs so much they are starting to believe them

[Cixer]

just an interesting side note: there was a 358 pic that lead me to beleive that Xion is Kairi's heartless (because she had one), and Axel might be Riku's nobody, but who knows

You mean the scene where Roxas and Xion are sitting on the Paopu Tree (mirroring Sora and Kairi), with Axel leaning against the trunk (mirroring Riku)?

I don't think Kairi could have a Heartless, because her heart is pure. And Riku never became a Heartless because he was just a human who used Darkness, so he couldn't have given off a Nobody. He was never really lost to the darkness.

I think that scene is just supposed to be symbolic. While I believe Xion is connected to Kairi (possibly through Namine...?), I don't believe Axel is connected to Riku. I think Axel is similar to Riku in that he's obviously older, stronger, and taller than Roxas, just like Riku is to Sora, and yet they're still friends.

[Sorkairiku]

I'm starting to believe that, while a Nobody's heart is outside of them(presumably floating in darkness), they are still distantly connected to it.
Axel may have been able to sense that connection to his own heart, if only briefly. That could have something to do with the fact that he's the only member of the Organization with an actual friend, and we all know how much friendship can affect the heart(triggering strong, pure emotions).
Perhaps the friendship element and its respective effects on the heart were drawing Heart and Nobody closer together? Or something like that?

In the case of Roxas and Namine, who have both displayed strong "symptoms" of emotion; I believe that their emotions are REAL because their hearts are still in the light(Sora and Kairi), and therefore the connection is much, much stronger.

[Denizen]

I didn't read all of the posts, so I am not sure if this was addressed or not, but there is something about the Nobodies that I have been wondering for a while now.
I don't remember everything that Naminé said in CoM, but didn't she say that memories are tied to the heart or they are stored there or something along those lines? If so, how do Nobodies, who have no hearts, remember anything from their previous existence, whether it's a memory of an emotion or an event (etc.)?

[Sorkairiku]

I think I have an answer to that in my last post(the one right above yours) if you care to take a look at it.

[Dark Heartless Cloud]

Saix says " your right we don't have hearts but we remember what it was like"

Namine in CoM says about memories being tied to the heart.

Contradicting ideas...I believe since Namine is a special nobody and might actually have a heart that things are diffrent for her as opposed to Saix. Saix "remembers" what triggered emotion perhaps? and so knew when to smile after he asked Xemnas if he could "end this charade" while namine might have a heart so it comes normally.


Sorry for the DP but I really needed to get this off my chest.

Could it be that the reason Namine and Roxas are special is because their host (Sora) is still alive? and since their hearts are connected Roxas and Namine use Soras heart as a medium to feel emotion? that would explain why Saix and the othes have to "pretend" since their former selfs arent alive to do the same act?

[Harrekki]

Well, there's also Xemnas statement

Saix: It doesn’t matter. All he got was nothingness. Axel couldn’t stand living without a heart. And he
was destroyed by getting close to one. He was weak.
Xemnas: But... some things awaken through weakness. You can see. Axel touched Sora’s heart. When he
was with Sora, perhaps he awakened too.

Could Xemnas be referring to memories I wonder?

[Dark Heartless Cloud]

Well, there's also Xemnas statement
Could Xemnas be referring to memories I wonder?

Mind pointing me where you found those quotes? I haven't seen em before lol.

[Denizen]

Oh, okay.
I think I understand the meaning of a special Nobody now. Here's what I've got:

Heartless: Pure Bread Heartless are the Darkness from within a Heart come to life. Emblem Heartless are literally Hearts that have been enveloped in Darkness.

Nobody: The shell left behind after a Heartless is born. However, the previous being must have had a strong will.

Special Nobody: A Nobody whose original self has kept or regained their true form. Because the original self still has an active Heart, the Heart creates a link between the Special Nobody and the original being. Thus, the Special Nobody can express emotions.

Does this sound about right to everyone?
Lol, I'm such a noob.

[Elemental_Sorcerer012]

Heart in Transition: A wandering Heart that has yet to transform into a Heartless, but is not a complete being.

Don't hearts in this case just go straight to Kingdom Hearts?

Special Nobody: A Nobody whose original self has kept or regained their true form. Because the original self still has an active Heart, the Heart creates a link between the Special Nobody and the original being. Thus, the Special Nobody can express emotions.

But isn't the main reason why Roxas and Namine are Special Nobodies is because Roxas was created from a Keyblade Master who willing sacrificed himself to the Darkness and Namine from the heart of a Princess of Heart who lacked Darkness?

[Denizen]

Don't hearts in this case just go straight to Kingdom Hearts?

That's what I would have assumed, but after Xehanort lost his Heart, it didn't instantly become Xehanort's Heartless. It was a sane-minded being, between a complete being and a Heartless and continued to write the 'Ansem' Reports.

But isn't the main reason why Roxas and Namine are Special Nobodies is because Roxas was created from a Keyblade Master who willing sacrificed himself to the Darkness and Namine from the heart of a Princess of Heart who lacked Darkness?

I don't see how willingly sacrificing oneself would make a 'Special' Nobody. However, criticizing myself for a moment, if when a Heartless is born, a Nobody too, and that Heartless is an active force, wouldn't that also create a connection between the Heartless and the Nobody.
I mean, people have been talking about how Sora shares his Heart with Roxas, thus giving Roxas the ability to feel emotions. So why can't a regular Heartless share its Heart with its corresponding Nobody? Obviously, it isn't some kind of conscious decision, whether or not to share your Heart with your corresponding Nobody, but still.

[Elemental_Sorcerer012]

That's what I would have assumed, but after Xehanort lost his Heart, it didn't instantly become Xehanort's Heartless. It was a sane-minded being, between a complete being and a Heartless and continued to write the 'Ansem' Reports.

I don't see how willingly sacrificing oneself would make a 'Special' Nobody. However, criticizing myself for a moment, if when a Heartless is born, a Nobody too, and that Heartless is an active force, wouldn't that also create a connection between the Heartless and the Nobody.
I mean, people have been talking about how Sora shares his Heart with Roxas, thus giving Roxas the ability to feel emotions. So why can't a regular Heartless share its Heart with its corresponding Nobody? Obviously, it isn't some kind of conscious decision, whether or not to share your Heart with your corresponding Nobody, but still.

All of this actually explained in Secret Ansem Report 10:

Sora went to sleep in order to recover the memories he lost in Castle Oblivion. It would take quite some time to bring back all the memories he had created in his lifetime.

But Organization XIII held sway over Castle Oblivion.

Sora would need to be kept someplace more secure.

I persuaded Naminé to move the slumbering Sora to Twilight Town for safekeeping.

Naminé.

As I have written here before, she is a most unusual being.

Born of the same process as a Nobody, but lacking virtually all the elements of a Nobody.

Perhaps she continues drawing in hopes of capturing that which she lacks: the memories of others, especially Sora.

I have arrived at a hypothesis.

I believe that Naminé was born as a special type of Nobody when Sora attacked himself with the Keyblade, causing his and Kairi's hearts to leave their bodies simultaneously.

Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody… but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.

When a person's heart is stolen, a Heartless is born with no sense of self, and the body and soul left behind give rise to a Nobody.

But what if one willingly releases one's heart from one's body?

Sora and Xehanort retained their selfhood even after becoming Heartless.

Then there are Kairi and Naminé.

Kairi was exceptional for having had no darkness within her heart. Also exceptional was that her heart, once freed, migrated to a new vessel—Sora.

The combination of these two theoretically unlikely exceptions may be behind this anomaly.

There are matters I must attend to while Sora is sleeping.

A new ally has appeared on the scene: Riku.

Though, what you said about the emotional connection between a Heartless and it's Nobody sounds rather interesting. It could be possible...

[Denizen]

All of this actually explained in Secret Ansem Report 10:
Though, what you said about the emotional connection between a Heartless and it's Nobody sounds rather interesting. It could be possible...

Oh, you're right. I forgot about Ansem's recognition of that occurrence.
When you think of it, it does add up that way. If a 'strong' Nobody is born from a person with a 'strong' will, then a 'special' Nobody would come from someone who willing lost their heart and in affect willingly allowed the birth of their Nobody?

So then, would willingly sacrificing one's Heart also allow that being to retain their human form as well? As seen with Sora, he did lose his human form, but was restored by Kairi. But Xehanort, on the other hand, must have kept some form, if he was able to continue writing the 'Ansem' Reports.

But then. . . Xehanort's Heartless, or Heart in Transition, did not reveal himself to be a Heartless until taking control of Riku's body and acting through it. He didn't even seem to have retained any human form before hand, he was just in that amorphous brown cloak.

[Elemental_Sorcerer012]

Oh, you're right. I forgot about Ansem's recognition of that occurrence.
When you think of it, it does add up that way. If a 'strong' Nobody is born from a person with a 'strong' will, then a 'special' Nobody would come from someone who willing lost their heart and in affect willingly allowed the birth of their Nobody?

So then, would willingly sacrificing one's Heart also allow that being to retain their human form as well? As seen with Sora, he did lose his human form, but was restored by Kairi. But Xehanort, on the other hand, must have kept some form, if he was able to continue writing the 'Ansem' Reports.

Indeed, because this was also true for Ansem's other apprentices.

But then. . . Xehanort's Heartless, or Heart in Transition, did not reveal himself to be a Heartless until taking control of Riku's body and acting through it. He didn't even seem to have retained any human form before hand, he was just in that amorphous brown cloak.

I know! That's something that didn't really make sense to me after a while. Because the way how both Ansem and Xehanort wrote thier reports, it seems like he just became a Special Heartless right on the spot... O_o So then, if this all true, then what was the perpose for the brown cloaked aura? ._.

[Lemon]

^^; I'm sorry. Not to butt in on your conversation...but I just wanted to reply to someone who posted earlier about Riku and Axel. I think that's a very, very reasonable theory, to be perfectly honest with you all. Here's why. [Sorry in advance if it may seem farfetched, but at least think about it.] The following theory was presented to me by a friend online who did all her research very well and compiled a nice manifesto/essay regarding the issue of Axel=/= Reno, and Axel=Riku. So please, do not give me credit.

The theory is this:

Axel, before he was named, had to have given Xemnas a fake name to cover the identity of his Somebody. I don't have the time to type out 20+ pages of a manifesto that my friend put together, unfortunately.

Guys and girls, hear me out.

If any of you recall, Riku wanted to protect his identity from those he cared for so that they wouldn't learn of his life in darkness; he wore the blindfold, the Organization cloak and very well could have gone by a codename prior to having Ansem's appearance, and thereby taking his name. Also, it seems that Axel has more of a chance at having a heart than even Roxas. Information? You've got it.

Basic points of the manifesto:

-The secret side of a human, the side that one may want to be yet are afraid to turn into, is a Nobody-->

-Case 1: Sora is a 14 year old kid when he earns title of Keyblade Master, and honestly, did he want this position at the expense of breaking his relationship with Riku and Kairi? He wouldn't, but the Keyblade chooses its master, so what's he to do?
-The hidden side of Sora: Roxas clearly doesn't want to fight, probably what Sora actually wanted to do in the first place, and would much rather spend summer vacation lounging with friends. Fact.

-Case 2: Kairi is a strong willed Princess of Heart who refuses to be branded a princess. She has to keep up with two island boys and fit in, so lagging behind and acting helpless and girly are not on her list of to-do's.
-The hidden side of Kairi: Namine is timid and not confident in herself. Secretly, she is like the princess atop the tower that Kairi very well could have wanted to be.

-Case 3: Riku was jealous of Sora and yet appreciated his best friend's talents. He tried to make a point in Sora's face that he was number one, just to flex his muscles a bit. Now, if he showed his approval of Sora's abilities, he wouldn't be so high and mighty, would he? Therefore, he hid this side from the world to protect his powerful persona.
-The hidden side of Riku: Axel is the opposite. He clearly appreciates Roxas's efforts in the Organization, be it sparring, missions, or simply exchanging thoughts atop the clock tower. Axel tells Roxas, more in the novelizations of the games than anywhere else, that he is a good friend. In short, Axel is the side of Riku who didn't want to reveal himself.

Points continued:

-Riku clearly crushed on Kairi and displayed acts of chivalry greater than Sora could have ever done in all three games together.

-Axel, while less heroic and passionate in his protective actions, saves Namine in Castle Oblivion and in KHII at least four times--freeing her from Marluxia, freeing her from a locked closet, taking care of her while she isn't with Riku, and granting her wish to see Kairi. Similarly in KHII, rather than harming Kairi as he kidnaps her, he merely takes her arm and pulls her into darkness with no intentions of using force. Why does he open a portal for Sora to go through in Betwixt and Between? For Kairi and Sora's benefit. Call it a way to "make up" for not only trying to harm Roxas, but for putting Kairi and Sora in harms way. A very Riku-esque thing to do.

-Riku and Axel's eye color are unique to them and only them. Aqua; not green, folks. Some drop palettes counter this argument, so it's hardly the most important factor here.
-Stature, posture, gesticulation, even hair style (given that Axel's hair be watered down some): all very similar

Just as Riku wanted to hide himself from the world after throwing himself into darkness, Axel would want to protect Riku's true identity, and thus give Xemnas a fake name to re-create. This could be why their names do not match up.

Those are the more important points to the manifesto, and why I say Axel is most definitely NOT "Ale" because he's "hahaha. BEER." And his relation to Reno? Don't even get me started.

Have anything you'd like to add in objection, fandom? I'd like to hear your thoughts. Thank you.