[7Knight-Wolf]

Given the amount of emotion conveyed and aroused by Replica Riku throughout this game, I couldn't help but wonder if his thoughts are genuine. Does Replica Riku have any real feelings? Being Riku's clone, does he share any of Riku's actual thoughts? The first time we meet him, he says some awful things about how Sora never cared about him and never cared about Namine. I wonder if Riku has any similar feelings; he does admit to feeling jealous of Sora in KH2. Any thoughts?

[Sorkairiku]

The Riku Replica is fully equipped with his own heart, body, mind, and soul. He just happens to look exactly like Riku and was constructed instead of born naturally (pretty much a clone). Vexen/The Organization used Namine to write false memories in his heart, making him believe all those things about Sora.

He's his own person, but that was kind of hard to see at first because of the spoon-fed memories.

[Jalian]

...what she said!

Yeah, Riku had some negative feelings towards Sora, but the replica went WAY beyond that. He was his own person, but he was horribly depressed and didn't see himself as one. He only knew how to fight and use darkness, so he thought that he had to fight in order to get rid of it. This is why he seemed to hate Sora.... it was all he knew. He's sorta like someone with a food disorder... you tell them they're thin, they say they're fat. He was a real person but couldn't believe it. (sorry if that example sounds mean but it was the best fit to the situation)

[7Knight-Wolf]

oh no, it wasn't mean. It's actually a pretty good example. I have a clearer understanding of the Replica now, so thanks. Still, I do have trouble with him being "his own person" since there is no way to construct a soul. If Vexen could do that, he would be a heck of a lot more powerful than anybody else. I could easily see Vexen creating a body, a mind, an emotional capacity--but the soul, I don't think a Nobody, or anyone else, can be credited with that.

[Sorkairiku]

Well... the soul thing depends on one's spiritual beliefs. I, personally, believe that if there is an inhabitable body, a soul will claim it. (I'm one for reincarnation and all that) But I don't want to dance on a sensitive topic here .

[7Knight-Wolf]

Good point. I don't think any of KNOWS, really, everything about the soul. I'm just glad you acknowledge that it exists. If we leave the sci-fi behind and consider real clones...what would we believe then? Of course, we've only been able to make animal clones, and those don't work very well. Then there's the whole question of whether animals have souls. (I believe they do, but most scientists would disagree.)

[Jalian]

Good point. I don't think any of KNOWS, really, everything about the soul. I'm just glad you acknowledge that it exists. If we leave the sci-fi behind and consider real clones...what would we believe then? Of course, we've only been able to make animal clones, and those don't work very well. Then there's the whole question of whether animals have souls. (I believe they do, but most scientists would disagree.)

i think it depends on the animal. animals can have personalities, like a playful puppy or a killer rotweiler. But creatures of instinct and hive-minds, like ants and bees, do not. But this isn't the place for this conversation.

[Denizen]

The Riku Replica is fully equipped with his own heart, body, mind, and soul. He just happens to look exactly like Riku and was constructed instead of born naturally (pretty much a clone). Vexen/The Organization used Namine to write false memories in his heart, making him believe all those things about Sora.

He's his own person, but that was kind of hard to see at first because of the spoon-fed memories.

Wow, no way. The Replica Riku was not an individual/independent being. It was a carbon copy, so to speak, of Riku's data that Vexen sampled. Nothing more, nothing less. Everything that it thought and felt was solely based on its false memories. He was just about as real as one of the citizens from DiZ's Simulated Twilight Town; based on an actual person, but not quite an actual person themselves.
And especially when you take into account the way that it dies. Because it has no real heart or body, it simply faded away into the Darkness, like the Nobodies.
In a sense, one could argue that the Replica Riku did not truly think at all until Naminé broke its heart. And still, that was from Naminé's influence.

i think it depends on the animal. animals can have personalities, like a playful puppy or a killer rotweiler. But creatures of instinct and hive-minds, like ants and bees, do not. But this isn't the place for this conversation.

And not that I want to get into a series discussion about this here, but it always tickles me when people explain souls. It's practically the only concept that was 100% fabricated by man, yet no one can explain it.

[7Knight-Wolf]

Interesting opinions, Denizen. I actaully like your idea of Replica Riku being like one of the citizens of the fake Twilight. I like it, but it does take away the thought-provoking parts of him.

I guess we're really not supposed to talk about animals and souls on a thread like this, but I can't resist. I am inclined (though not certain) to believe that whatever has a brain probably has a soul. I don't know about insects; we haven't been able to scientifically examine their brains for emotional capacity yet. But animals have complex brains, where as organisms like bacteria, trees, plants, and one-cell organisms have nothing of the kind--no sentience, if you know what I mean.

[Sorkairiku]

Wow, no way. The Replica Riku was not an individual/independent being. It was a carbon copy, so to speak, of Riku's data that Vexen sampled. Nothing more, nothing less. Everything that it thought and felt was solely based on its false memories. He was just about as real as one of the citizens from DiZ's Simulated Twilight Town; based on an actual person, but not quite an actual person themselves.
And especially when you take into account the way that it dies. Because it has no real heart or body, it simply faded away into the Darkness, like the Nobodies.
In a sense, one could argue that the Replica Riku did not truly think at all until Naminé broke its heart. And still, that was from Naminé's influence.

But how could Namine influence him if he did not have a heart?

Also, he did truly think before Namine broke his heart. Remember that scene where he showed fear in front of Larxene? (there's another thing. you can't deny that he was terrified)

True, he died like a Nobody, but that only meant that his body was made of/mostly made of darkness. (just another note here: the Nobodies do have bodies. They're the bodies left behind when someone loses their heart. In that respect, their name is sort of an oxymoron) All in all, it was still a body. How could it not be if it could touch/feel things?

Lastly, Sora even said before they parted that his heart was his own. They didn't just put that scene in there for nothing.

[Denizen]

But how could Namine influence him if he did not have a heart?

Also, he did truly think before Namine broke his heart. Remember that scene where he showed fear in front of Larxene? (there's another thing. you can't deny that he was terrified)

True, he died like a Nobody, but that only meant that his body was made of/mostly made of darkness. (just another note here: the Nobodies do have bodies. They're the bodies left behind when someone loses their heart. In that respect, their name is sort of an oxymoron) All in all, it was still a body. How could it not be if it could touch/feel things?

Lastly, Sora even said before they parted that his heart was his own. They didn't just put that scene in there for nothing.

Think of all of the Replicas as puppets. They may be physical beings, but without someone pulling their strings, they are nothing. And I am very well aware of what a Nobody is, thank you very much. I was comparing the way a Nobody and a Replica die, not what they are comprised of. I'm no mind reader and I'm not going to pretend to know what the writers were think, but do you seriously think that Sora would know what becomes of a Replica? I seriously doubt it. If anything, Sora was trying to comfort the Replica the best he could.

[Sorkairiku]

Think of all of the Replicas as puppets. They may be physical beings, but without someone pulling their strings, they are nothing. And I am very well aware of what a Nobody is, thank you very much. I was comparing the way a Nobody and a Replica die, not what they are comprised of. I'm no mind reader and I'm not going to pretend to know what the writers were think, but do you seriously think that Sora would know what becomes of a Replica? I seriously doubt it. If anything, Sora was trying to comfort the Replica the best he could.

Okay, chill. I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence. I was just describing the Nobody thing as part of my argument.

I understand that Sora knew little to nothing about Replicas, and I was not "pretending to know" what the writers were thinking. That's just the impression the scene gave me. I'm following my instincts and common sense here.

In the end, the Replica was torn apart by all that had happened, and thus he attacked Riku of his own free will. His was an unfortunate position, but I still think his body, heart, and mind/soul were his own. Synthetic, yes, but real. True he faded into darkness, but that was just the way his body, meaning whatever it was made of, died.

[Denizen]

Okay, chill. I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence. I was just describing the Nobody thing as part of my argument.

Lol, I didn't feel insulted, I just wanted to be snooty. (No hard feelings?)

I understand that Sora knew little to nothing about Replicas, and I was not "pretending to know" what the writers were thinking. That's just the impression the scene gave me. I'm following my instincts and common sense here.

Also, I wasn't trying to accuse you of doing that, but sometimes I sound like I am when I post..

In the end, the Replica was torn apart by all that had happened, and thus he attacked Riku of his own free will. His was an unfortunate position, but I still think his body, heart, and mind/soul were his own. Synthetic, yes, but real. True he faded into darkness, but that was just the way his body, meaning whatever it was made of, died.

That's almost the entire point though. The Replica was given Riku's name, Riku's form and abilities and was filled with Riku's memories and false memories of Naminé. It truly believed that it was Riku, but then it's heart is destroyed and it learns that it is a clone of someone and its entire life and existence is a lie. It malfunctions and begins to think on its own for a short amount of time before it is destroyed.

I feel that although we continue to mention it, no one seems to really understand what happened to the Replica. Naminé destroyed its Chains of Memories and thus broke its heart. The fact that the Replica survived this just goes to show how much of a machine it truly is. When Naminé was forced to preform this on Sora, she begged not to because Sora would not be able to survive, and luckily the Replica swooped in at the nick of time.

Because Replicas are probably the most unnatural organism in the KH series, they do not even need their synthetic hearts to live. Like I mentioned earlier, they are no different than the synthetic people in DiZ's Simulated Twilight Town. They are puppets.

[7Knight-Wolf]

I agree. The Replica may be able to have physical reactions similar to those human brains undergo when feeling emotion, but he can't have the actual emotion itself, which occurs in one's soul. Of course, my theory hinges on my personal beleifs, and like I said earlier, I think Nomura's intent was to keep us thinking, with no right or wrong answer except our own.

[Sorkairiku]

Lol, I didn't feel insulted, I just wanted to be snooty. (No hard feelings?)
Also, I wasn't trying to accuse you of doing that, but sometimes I sound like I am when I post..
That's almost the entire point though. The Replica was given Riku's name, Riku's form and abilities and was filled with Riku's memories and false memories of Naminé. It truly believed that it was Riku, but then it's heart is destroyed and it learns that it is a clone of someone and its entire life and existence is a lie. It malfunctions and begins to think on its own for a short amount of time before it is destroyed.

I feel that although we continue to mention it, no one seems to really understand what happened to the Replica. Naminé destroyed its Chains of Memories and thus broke its heart. The fact that the Replica survived this just goes to show how much of a machine it truly is. When Naminé was forced to preform this on Sora, she begged not to because Sora would not be able to survive, and luckily the Replica swooped in at the nick of time.

Because Replicas are probably the most unnatural organism in the KH series, they do not even need their synthetic hearts to live. Like I mentioned earlier, they are no different than the synthetic people in DiZ's Simulated Twilight Town. They are puppets.

>_<; Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I guess it all boils down to "what is life?" Take the movie "I Robot" for instance. In case you haven't seen it; one of it's main points is something like, "at what point does a robot get a soul?" There's a ton more to say about that, but I'm not about to list it all here.

Also, he showed some free will before his heart got smashed. Remember when he confronted the original Riku? I'm sticking to my theories, but I'll try to keep an open mind in case they're thoroughly smashed someday.

I think Nomura's intent was to keep us thinking, with no right or wrong answer except our own.

Yeah, that's most likely how it is. That's how it usually is with these things, anyway. So in that respect, this whole topic is pointless!

....Dang, that can open up a whole new topic by itself. "What is 'pointless'...?"

[Jalian]

I just wanted to be snooty.

you do that often? lol

probably the biggest reason why Square-Enix games are so great is because they have a way of making us think... did

Spoiler

Squall die

? Who does Cloud really love? And then we get into debates and wind up making fools of ourselves...

[twilightknight]

Lol Good point Marluxia.