[Keystaff Master]

I've been replaying Days recently and it has me thinking on the subject of Roxas and Xion's Keyblades that they use during the game. Upon discovering the Ultimania Days Timeline... I've grown extremely confused and have found a major inconsistency. x[

After Sora's rescue of Kairi in KH1 Roxas is immediately born in Twilight Town (Day 1). Roxas is able to use the Keyblade because he is the Nobody of Sora, but he's able to due so at the same time as Sora has access to TWO Keyblades because he:

Spoiler

he shelters Ventus's heart in his own and is able to use his Keyblade as well, as stated by Nomura.

Okay, this is all well in good, until you attempt to fit in Xion's use of the Keyblade. At first I figured: "Oh, Sora was already asleep and having his memories reconstructed by Naminé by the time Xion began using the Keyblade." This would have worked out, Roxas using Sora's extra one and Xion using Sora's own Keyblade, but... I hit a snag while doing timeline research...

Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days Ultimania Guide gave a timeline for Days stacked up against the end of KH1. Ultimania guides are official and thus the problem arises:
Day 24:
Sora arrives in Castle Oblivion.
Day 25:
Xion learns how to use the Keyblade.
Day 26:
Roxas sleeps / Sora's memories begin to be rearranged.
Day 49:
Sora defeats Marluxia and begins to have his chain of memories reconnected.
Day 50:
Roxas wakes up.

See the problem? At one point Sora, Roxas, and Xion ALL used the Keyblade at the same time and thus THREE Keyblades existed at once. 24 days before Sora began his sleep, Xion was already using the Keyblade while Roxas also used one. It's not like one would just use the Keyblade while the other wasn't, that would be unethical. In the middle of a battle and Sora's Keyblade just disappears? Xion starts using it and then Sora just re-summons it. They keep juggling back and forth between wielders. It doesn't seem at all possible and it would seem to contradict the fact that Sora only has TWO for that one reason. After Roxas absorbs Xion he is able to summon two Keyblades at once, which makes sense. Sora is still asleep and therefore there's no reason Roxas wouldn't be able to call both. The fact that Xion had a Keyblade while the other two were using one as well troubles me and I can't make sense of it. The more I look into Keyblades the more confusing their logic becomes. =/

So, I don't know what to think of this save for it seems like a contradiction. On the other hand, it could be possible just for Roxas and Xion to "share" a Keyblade by splitting it in two, but then that doesn't seem ethical either as then there would be no logic behind Sora having special access to two for a special reason. By that logic anybody would be able to split their Keyblades. Keyblades may be of magic origin, but that doesn't mean that they don't abide by simple fact that a single Keyblade is a single Keyblade.

What do you guys think?

[Bobjam]

I always assumed Xion was simply a replica (an imperfect one) and therefore her use of the key blade only reflects the fact Roxas and Sora both wield one. I dunno if that counts her out of this problem but she was created off Sora's memories and so maybe her use of the keyblade is less relevant? ... Just spitting thoughts ^^.

[Keystaff Master]

Bobjam, on 06 February 2011 - 01:42 AM, said:

I always assumed Xion was simply a replica (an imperfect one) and therefore her use of the key blade only reflects the fact Roxas and Sora both wield one. I dunno if that counts her out of this problem but she was created off Sora's memories and so maybe her use of the keyblade is less relevant? ... Just spitting thoughts ^^.

Riku accuses Xion's Keyblade being a "sham", but if it was it wouldn't be able to collect hearts. I mean, the only thing I could think of is if Nomura would come forth and explain that because the immensely complex situation (wow, complexity, more of it) that the Keyblade was able to exist in two different locations for some crazy metaphysical reason.

[Dark Heartless Cloud]

Maybe they replicated Soras heart somehow? and thats why she has the memories and the Keyblade. I find it weird as well though. Its all confusing. Another theory is that Sora had the ability to wield a keyblade of his own aside from Ventus. So it would chain down---> Sora wielding his own. Roxas wielding his own because he is Sora's nobody and Xion wielding Ventus keyblade perhaps?

[Keystaff Master]

Dark Heartless Cloud, on 07 February 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

Maybe they replicated Soras heart somehow? and thats why she has the memories and the Keyblade. I find it weird as well though. Its all confusing. Another theory is that Sora had the ability to wield a keyblade of his own aside from Ventus. So it would chain down---> Sora wielding his own. Roxas wielding his own because he is Sora's nobody and Xion wielding Ventus keyblade perhaps?

That would contradict a pre-established fact that Nomura has stated (Sora having two because one is Ven's). Before I came across this anomaly I was putting forth a theory that Roxas was simply using Ven's Keyblade until his absorption of Xion (which would be wielding Sora's as he was asleep) when he gained a second for his Oblivion/Oathkeeper combo.

[TTKB2]

I once told myself I would never theorize over this again... why am I here?

Anyway, I'm not going to give any actual theory, but just the tools to which I think might cause somebody to think up one.

1) Memories are a theme that has been growing increasingly more important ever since CoM, and they play a prominent role in Days.
2) This may be connected to (1), but Xion at some point loses the ability to use her Keyblade.
3) Xion's character is connected to Sora's memories of Kairi, hence the appearance.

Oh, and speaking of Kairi, that's a whole 'nother "too many Keyblades" mess. At least while Riku is holding her Keyblade. Because I would assume that meant that he had it with him... for some reason. Which would mean he could wield two at that time. Though I guess there, it would be said that either Terra/MX's influence (maybe a piece of their heart(s)?) was still in him, so then he could wield two at that time.

[Keystaff Master]

So, I have found two instances where Xion's Keyblade has been referred to as a "fake". They are:

1.) After Xion's fight with Riku at Beast's Castle, he says: "I don't know who you're supposed to be. But...you can't fight
fire with sparks. This Keyblade, it's a sham--worthless."

2.) In a Days interview with Nomura he says: "So that’s why [Riku] lost to Roxas, he was surprised at him using a real Keyblade rather than an imitation like Xion's

So, while there seems to be little evidence or mention of it elsewhere it would seem that Xion's Keyblade must be an imitation or fake Keyblade. This rises the question: "Can Keyblades be imitated?" Xion was able to collect hearts with her Keyblade, but if they could make Keyblades or at least imitate them to a degree why didn't they just make more and all use them?

Answer: "In the KH series there are a lot of complex reasons why someone can use a Keyblade, but basically you need a “heart” to be able to wield one." [Nomura]

Xion was a "replica" like Riku Replica was as they were both part of the Replica Program. Replicas are like clones in a way (I know the exact definition of "clone" so don't preach to me about them not being clones, I said "like" for lack of a better term. We know Xion doesn't resemble Sora, but does start to become him later, but that's not the point). We know that Riku Replica had a heart, otherwise Naminé would have no memories to tamper with within his heart, no? So, Xion obviously had a heart which allowed her to wield a Keyblade (be it a sham or not).

Of course, this begs the question of why Roxas could, but that's a topic for a different thread.

Also: "Well, it isn’t that Roxas has physically inherited Xion’s Keyblade, but more that Xion has awakened it within Roxas." [Nomura]

So, it would seem that Xion didn't pass on her like I originally thought, but her absorption by Roxas simply "awakened" his ability to wield a second Keyblade (likely Sora's as he was sleeping by this time).

This post has been edited by Keystaff Master: 18 February 2011 - 01:48 PM

[RoxasXsaxoR]

.....so that i can understand i need to play KH 1 and 2.

[Keystaff Master]

RoxasXsaxoR, on 10 March 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

.....so that i can understand i need to play KH 1 and 2.

...I wouldn't even return to these forums until you do...

Nah! I'm just messing with you! ;P

Seriously, play Re:Chain of Memories while you're at it, second best game in the franchise (story-wise) and very important to the story if you haven't played it yet.

[RoxasXsaxoR]

Keystaff Master, on 11 March 2011 - 06:20 AM, said:

...I wouldn't even return to these forums until you do...

Nah! I'm just messing with you! ;P

Seriously, play Re:Chain of Memories while you're at it, second best game in the franchise (story-wise) and very important to the story if you haven't played it yet.

Lol
I am saving up so that i can buy KH 1 and 2.I have days so....Anyway i am understanding a little since i'm watching the vids on youtube.
And i agree that CoM is the second best game on the franchise.

[Tsubasa Uehara]

Keystaff Master, on 06 February 2011 - 01:24 AM, said:

I've been replaying Days recently and it has me thinking on the subject of Roxas and Xion's Keyblades that they use during the game. Upon discovering the Ultimania Days Timeline... I've grown extremely confused and have found a major inconsistency. x[

After Sora's rescue of Kairi in KH1 Roxas is immediately born in Twilight Town (Day 1). Roxas is able to use the Keyblade because he is the Nobody of Sora, but he's able to due so at the same time as Sora has access to TWO Keyblades because he:

Spoiler

he shelters Ventus's heart in his own and is able to use his Keyblade as well, as stated by Nomura.

Okay, this is all well in good, until you attempt to fit in Xion's use of the Keyblade. At first I figured: "Oh, Sora was already asleep and having his memories reconstructed by Naminé by the time Xion began using the Keyblade." This would have worked out, Roxas using Sora's extra one and Xion using Sora's own Keyblade, but... I hit a snag while doing timeline research...

Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days Ultimania Guide gave a timeline for Days stacked up against the end of KH1. Ultimania guides are official and thus the problem arises:
Day 24:
Sora arrives in Castle Oblivion.
Day 25:
Xion learns how to use the Keyblade.
Day 26:
Roxas sleeps / Sora's memories begin to be rearranged.
Day 49:
Sora defeats Marluxia and begins to have his chain of memories reconnected.
Day 50:
Roxas wakes up.

See the problem? At one point Sora, Roxas, and Xion ALL used the Keyblade at the same time and thus THREE Keyblades existed at once. 24 days before Sora began his sleep, Xion was already using the Keyblade while Roxas also used one. It's not like one would just use the Keyblade while the other wasn't, that would be unethical. In the middle of a battle and Sora's Keyblade just disappears? Xion starts using it and then Sora just re-summons it. They keep juggling back and forth between wielders. It doesn't seem at all possible and it would seem to contradict the fact that Sora only has TWO for that one reason. After Roxas absorbs Xion he is able to summon two Keyblades at once, which makes sense. Sora is still asleep and therefore there's no reason Roxas wouldn't be able to call both. The fact that Xion had a Keyblade while the other two were using one as well troubles me and I can't make sense of it. The more I look into Keyblades the more confusing their logic becomes. =/

So, I don't know what to think of this save for it seems like a contradiction. On the other hand, it could be possible just for Roxas and Xion to "share" a Keyblade by splitting it in two, but then that doesn't seem ethical either as then there would be no logic behind Sora having special access to two for a special reason. By that logic anybody would be able to split their Keyblades. Keyblades may be of magic origin, but that doesn't mean that they don't abide by simple fact that a single Keyblade is a single Keyblade.

What do you guys think?

I think that maybe you're right but I believe Sora was using his own keyblade, while Roxas and Xion (that are apart of Ventus) are sharing Ven's keyblade.

[nova]

Roxas definitely uses Sora's keyblade. Simply, Sora's keyblade can exist in more than one place at once. (Roxas is also using Sora's heart).

I think Roxas and Xion fight over Ven's keyblade.
Or.
Well.

I'm not clear on that part.

[Tsubasa Uehara]

Shay, on 29 February 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

Roxas definitely uses Sora's keyblade. Simply, Sora's keyblade can exist in more than one place at once. (Roxas is also using Sora's heart).

I think Roxas and Xion fight over Ven's keyblade.
Or.
Well.

I'm not clear on that part.

Yeah, I understand. Me, too I am not clear ont that part but what you're saying makes much more sense than mine's.

[Day]

What I wanna know is. How on earth can Xion and Roxas weild the same Kingdom Key at the same time. There should only be one Kingdom Key. Don't give me that "their connected" stuff. It sounds too farfetched for two different wielders to wield the same exact keyblade at the same exact time. I wish Nomura can explain this to us.

[Michael_S]

Day, on 01 March 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

What I wanna know is. How on earth can Xion and Roxas weild the same Kingdom Key at the same time. There should only be one Kingdom Key. Don't give me that "their connected" stuff. It sounds too farfetched for two different wielders to wield the same exact keyblade at the same exact time. I wish Nomura can explain this to us.

let me just say that
1. xion didnt start using the keyblade until roxas shared his with her. so i would say that hers was just a shadow of roxas', thats why it would be a kingdom key.
2. it seemed like xion was slowly absorbing sora's memories from roxas, eventually meant to replace roxas so that would get rid of the extra keyblade.

[Captain Hazama]

Michael_S, on 01 March 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

let me just say that
1. xion didnt start using the keyblade until roxas shared his with her. so i would say that hers was just a shadow of roxas', thats why it would be a kingdom key.
2. it seemed like xion was slowly absorbing sora's memories from roxas, eventually meant to replace roxas so that would get rid of the extra keyblade.

So technically, Nomura DID tell us. Roxas was never ment to be. Like what Namine said in KH II

[Michael_S]

LoveIsOver, on 02 March 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

So technically, Nomura DID tell us. Roxas was never ment to be. Like what Namine said in KH II

i dont know what Nomura said about anything, this is just what i picked up from the games. maybe Sora wasnt supposed to release his heart to save Kairi. this is what caused Sora to become a heartless and anyone with a strong enough heart also produced a nobody(Roxas).

[Rob]

Nomura did say they were all the same keyblade because they are connected.

[Day]

Rob, on 02 March 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

Nomura did say they were all the same keyblade because they are connected.

That sounds like a load of crap coming from Nomura. It doesn't make any sense that Xion and Roxas can both use the exact same keyblade at the exact same time. Should the Kingdom Key be the only in its kind?

[skydash]

Well, if you think about it, Mickey also uses kingdom key (with gold color) at one point, so there's possibility that there is more than one kingdom keys.

For three keyblades at once, I think that's because Xion started absorbing Roxas' power. That's why Roxas sleeps in the next few days.
I agree that Xion was created to replace either Sora or Roxas or even both of them. The novel revealed the real purpose of Xion's creation.

[Rob]

Day, on 02 March 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

That sounds like a load of crap coming from Nomura. It doesn't make any sense that Xion and Roxas can both use the exact same keyblade at the exact same time. Should the Kingdom Key be the only in its kind?

If Sora can exist while his nobody is running around, then the same goes for the keyblade.

skydash, on 02 March 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

Well, if you think about it, Mickey also uses kingdom key (with gold color) at one point, so there's possibility that there is more than one kingdom keys.

For three keyblades at once, I think that's because Xion started absorbing Roxas' power. That's why Roxas sleeps in the next few days.
I agree that Xion was created to replace either Sora or Roxas or even both of them. The novel revealed the real purpose of Xion's creation.

The kingdom Key D came from the realm of darkness. It's the opposite of the Kingdom Key(realm of light), so they aren't the same.

This post has been edited by Rob: 02 March 2012 - 08:48 AM