Help
So I've been playing BBS on proud mode recently and as I've progressed through Terra's story I've been thinking about his personality. Is Terra a hero who just got victimized, or is he just plain old weak? In my opinion it's a little of both. To me Terra is weak, at least sometimes. His obsession with power leads him to be played by pretty much every villain in the game, including: Maleficent, Hades and of course Xeanhort. If he was really master material, would he be so blind to the treachery of others? And besides, I just don't get why Terra continues to lean on the darkness when he knows that's his main problem. Even at the very end, the darkness is Terra's undoing. I don't understand why in every world Terra visits, he has an epiphany about why he shouldn't rely on the darkness, then he goes and uses it again. He knows the darkness is what hurt all of his friends and yet he uses it to fight Master Xeanhort. It just doesn't make sense to me. Plus the fact that most of the issues in KH1 are his fault. He chose Riku to be the next keyblade wielder, another boy who's obsessed with power and whose heart is susceptible to darkness. If Terra hadn't chosen Riku, there never would've been a body for Xeanhort's heartless to take over.
But I also think that there are some good qualities about Terra. I think it's good that he understands what he's done is wrong at the end and that he tries to make it right again. He's extremely loyal to his friends and that can end up being his undoing. Actually, the first time I think his use of the darkness is justified is when he defends Ven from Master Eraqus. True it's bad that he uses the darkness because it puts him one step closer to the edge, but at least he's using it for a good reason instead of just being manipulated or angry. Deep down, I think Terra is a good guy, but he's foolish and rash. He doesn't really think before he acts and it gets him in trouble.
I want to hear what other people think about him though. Hero or Zero people?
Terra, Zero or Hero?
#1
- Weakling
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 09-October 11
- Gender:Female
Posted 10 October 2011 - 05:12 PM
#2
- The Flurry Of Dancing Flames
-
- Group: KHU Committee
- Posts: 3,162
- Joined: 13-July 05
- Gender:Female
- Location:Check your pocket!
Posted 11 October 2011 - 07:32 AM
Hero: Individual that is admired for noble or courageous qualities.
Terra is a flawed character, sure. One of his main problems is his constant search for power. The thing is that he has a massive struggle going on within himself. Being aware of the darkness within and then choosing to ignore it causes so many other problems that it's not even funny. Is he a "zero" for his denial? No, that's just being human (well a human trait for a game character). Another way to look at it is that Master Eraques' distrust kind of drove Terra up against a wall (even more than before). Having found this out and also the fact that one of his friends was sent to spy on him just hurt him even more.
Anyway, I getting off course here. What I'm trying to explain is that all the "events" and emotions that Terra goes through doesn't make him a zero. It just makes him a guy with dreams that can be overly trusting and therefore causes him to make bad decisions in the process. Though at the end, I would peg him as a hero.
Why? Terra is willing to fight for his friends despite the darkness. He wants to help them despite the possession. Not only that, he is determined to fight back against Xehanort no matter how impossible it might be. I think that's pretty noble of him, don't you?
Oh, but one last thought. Hero or zero, whatever others see Terra as, at least he's 20x better than Riku
Terra is a flawed character, sure. One of his main problems is his constant search for power. The thing is that he has a massive struggle going on within himself. Being aware of the darkness within and then choosing to ignore it causes so many other problems that it's not even funny. Is he a "zero" for his denial? No, that's just being human (well a human trait for a game character). Another way to look at it is that Master Eraques' distrust kind of drove Terra up against a wall (even more than before). Having found this out and also the fact that one of his friends was sent to spy on him just hurt him even more.
Anyway, I getting off course here. What I'm trying to explain is that all the "events" and emotions that Terra goes through doesn't make him a zero. It just makes him a guy with dreams that can be overly trusting and therefore causes him to make bad decisions in the process. Though at the end, I would peg him as a hero.
Why? Terra is willing to fight for his friends despite the darkness. He wants to help them despite the possession. Not only that, he is determined to fight back against Xehanort no matter how impossible it might be. I think that's pretty noble of him, don't you?
Oh, but one last thought. Hero or zero, whatever others see Terra as, at least he's 20x better than Riku
#3
- Weakling
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 09-October 11
- Gender:Female
Posted 11 October 2011 - 07:21 PM
I get what you're saying and I appreciate the opinion. I wanted to see what other people thought of him because I've been thinking about it for a while now.
#4
- It's time to kick ass n' chew bubble gum
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 3,811
- Joined: 26-February 06
- Gender:Female
- Location:Traverse Town Hotel. I charge $120/night for the Green Room
Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:52 AM
Aquagirl, thanks for the question. I think it is a good one for discussion.
When I was playing BBS, the only clue as to what I expect would become of Terra was from BBS teaser trailers, and what I perceived was the potential that Terra would defect to the dark side. I've seen enough movies about would-be heroes with a less-than-pure heart who became enemies of the world to ignore the potential that Terra could follow the same path (e.g. Star Wars, X-men First Class, various FFs). It was pretty clear from the get-go that whatever was going on in Terra's mind and heart, Eraqus thought it was not good; Eraqus' assessment of Terra during the Mark of Mastery exam resonated with my own.
I ended up being completely wrong about Terra. I also ended up admiring his character the most. Being a little more susceptible to the darkness doesn't make him a weak character. On the contrary, he's shown the mark of true strength by being able to continuously battle it, yet still being able to protect important people in his life. It shows that he's strong enough of character to withstand manipulations, and to correct things that went wrong. Terra never knew what Xehanort was up to until the end; he came to work alongside Xehanort because he believed Xehanort's claims about wanting to set the things right. Terra also thought Xehanort would help him come to terms with his inner darkness, which Terra previously had no support for at all. Considering that he was being alienated for his natural powers, I'd say that's a significant turning point to trying to stay on the path of "good". Other than unlocking Aurora's heart, I can't remember much that Terra has done that had a negative resounding impact on the rest of the universe. I would not consider his bestowing powers on Riku as something bad--Terra had no ill intentions at that time, neither did Riku.
It's really hard to go against your nature, and Terra's nature has some darkness in it, unfortunately. It's like growing up in a bad neighbourhood--you're dealt with a bad hand in life, but what you do in spite of it is what matters the most. In his actions and words, Terra has demonstrated that he is a hero. However, we can distinguish him with the sort of hero that Sora and Aqua are: Terra is a traditional Shakespearan tragic hero, which you define as a hero with a fatal flaw. They don't always start out doing the things you'd expect a hero to do, but they come through in the end.
When I was playing BBS, the only clue as to what I expect would become of Terra was from BBS teaser trailers, and what I perceived was the potential that Terra would defect to the dark side. I've seen enough movies about would-be heroes with a less-than-pure heart who became enemies of the world to ignore the potential that Terra could follow the same path (e.g. Star Wars, X-men First Class, various FFs). It was pretty clear from the get-go that whatever was going on in Terra's mind and heart, Eraqus thought it was not good; Eraqus' assessment of Terra during the Mark of Mastery exam resonated with my own.
I ended up being completely wrong about Terra. I also ended up admiring his character the most. Being a little more susceptible to the darkness doesn't make him a weak character. On the contrary, he's shown the mark of true strength by being able to continuously battle it, yet still being able to protect important people in his life. It shows that he's strong enough of character to withstand manipulations, and to correct things that went wrong. Terra never knew what Xehanort was up to until the end; he came to work alongside Xehanort because he believed Xehanort's claims about wanting to set the things right. Terra also thought Xehanort would help him come to terms with his inner darkness, which Terra previously had no support for at all. Considering that he was being alienated for his natural powers, I'd say that's a significant turning point to trying to stay on the path of "good". Other than unlocking Aurora's heart, I can't remember much that Terra has done that had a negative resounding impact on the rest of the universe. I would not consider his bestowing powers on Riku as something bad--Terra had no ill intentions at that time, neither did Riku.
It's really hard to go against your nature, and Terra's nature has some darkness in it, unfortunately. It's like growing up in a bad neighbourhood--you're dealt with a bad hand in life, but what you do in spite of it is what matters the most. In his actions and words, Terra has demonstrated that he is a hero. However, we can distinguish him with the sort of hero that Sora and Aqua are: Terra is a traditional Shakespearan tragic hero, which you define as a hero with a fatal flaw. They don't always start out doing the things you'd expect a hero to do, but they come through in the end.
#5
- Fuckin Duke Nukem 4ever, how does it work?
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 7,515
- Joined: 16-September 06
- Location:∵Иೆ!†तっФ」
Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:46 AM
I think Terra gets too much bad rap for being "gullible." And he is to a degree. But part of the problem is in the execution, Terra is not as much of an idiot as most people think he is. Like, when you see him falling for the traps of villains in some worlds (and he doesn't do it in every one, for example in Dwarf Woodlands, he's just playing along for his own advantage), most people roll their eyes. How could Terra fall for Hook's trap, for example?
Remember, we're a bit biased here. We've grown up knowing these people to be the bad guys, of course we don't trust them. But you know what? With how little Terra knows these people, he's just as well trusting them as Sora is trusting Peter Pan or Aladdin. It just so happens that, while both are trusting, Terra runs into the wrong people. That's kind of the idea. The inevitability of it. Terra wants to deny the darkness that is naturally in his heart, but he gravitates toward people who also have darkness.
So he's not just choosing to use darkness either (except at the end, as a last attempt, which is exactly what MX wanted), he's trying to suppress it but can't due to the circumstances (and because MX throws his heart into confusion, making him unsure of what's right and wrong).
Remember, we're a bit biased here. We've grown up knowing these people to be the bad guys, of course we don't trust them. But you know what? With how little Terra knows these people, he's just as well trusting them as Sora is trusting Peter Pan or Aladdin. It just so happens that, while both are trusting, Terra runs into the wrong people. That's kind of the idea. The inevitability of it. Terra wants to deny the darkness that is naturally in his heart, but he gravitates toward people who also have darkness.
So he's not just choosing to use darkness either (except at the end, as a last attempt, which is exactly what MX wanted), he's trying to suppress it but can't due to the circumstances (and because MX throws his heart into confusion, making him unsure of what's right and wrong).
#6
- Grand Theft Icon
-
- Group: Global Moderators
- Posts: 2,525
- Joined: 02-October 05
- Gender:Female
- Location:127.0.0.1 (there's no place like it ♡)
Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:49 AM
i don't think it's as wrong to use darkness as it was made out to be, to terra. darkness is a power that can do a lot of evil things, but i don't see why necessarily it has to do that. terra is much like riku, their light and dark powers are balanced and they focus on the dark, because it seems like such a bad thing that they have (we all know it isn't so).
terra is unfortunate in the sense that his teacher visibly is concerned about his powers, his teacher is showing him in ways that he is wrong for having that and it can only lead to something bad. this is of course going to get to terra, in the end. his entire journey he is trying to prove that he isn't a bad person, but even he doubts that, and it leads him towards something that really is evil. at which point it's inescapable.
but if he was taught from the beginning that it wasn't something bad? i think it would have turned out much differently
terra is unfortunate in the sense that his teacher visibly is concerned about his powers, his teacher is showing him in ways that he is wrong for having that and it can only lead to something bad. this is of course going to get to terra, in the end. his entire journey he is trying to prove that he isn't a bad person, but even he doubts that, and it leads him towards something that really is evil. at which point it's inescapable.
but if he was taught from the beginning that it wasn't something bad? i think it would have turned out much differently
#7
- Tinny the Good.
-
- Group: Global Moderators
- Posts: 4,464
- Joined: 07-December 04
Posted 18 February 2012 - 05:39 PM
I think that, at the time, no one had thought Darkness was wieldable without falling to ruin. Which, at the time, seemed likely; especially with the threat of Xehanort looming over everything. Well, in that regard Eraqus and Aqua were right to be worried.
Terra was easily manipulated, but I love him for it. I was terrified that he'd be the strong silent sort of jerky character, but he was completely lovable. All three of the BBS trio were. Terra's definitely a hero and he deserves to be saved.
Terra was easily manipulated, but I love him for it. I was terrified that he'd be the strong silent sort of jerky character, but he was completely lovable. All three of the BBS trio were. Terra's definitely a hero and he deserves to be saved.
#8
- Fuckin Duke Nukem 4ever, how does it work?
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 7,515
- Joined: 16-September 06
- Location:∵Иೆ!†तっФ」
Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:24 PM
basically eraqus was a judgmental old asshole. It's funny because MX was kind of right about that even though he was just saying it to manipulate Terra.
#9
- Grand Theft Icon
-
- Group: Global Moderators
- Posts: 2,525
- Joined: 02-October 05
- Gender:Female
- Location:127.0.0.1 (there's no place like it ♡)
Posted 19 February 2012 - 03:08 AM
Grassy, on 18 February 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:
basically eraqus was a judgmental old asshole. It's funny because MX was kind of right about that even though he was just saying it to manipulate Terra.
Your Favorite Person, on 18 February 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:
Terra was easily manipulated, but I love him for it. I was terrified that he'd be the strong silent sort of jerky character, but he was completely lovable. All three of the BBS trio were. Terra's definitely a hero and he deserves to be saved.
yes & yes. ♥
you know, before this thread, i didn't even realize that there were people who didn't like terra? i mean, terra is practically riku and everyone loves riku! except, terra is a lot less of a dick
he's a bit more naive than riku, and has more optimism i think! he reminds me of zack from ff7 ♥
mostly i just see a good person there.
#10
- Tinny the Good.
-
- Group: Global Moderators
- Posts: 4,464
- Joined: 07-December 04
Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:29 AM
Shay, on 19 February 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:
yes & yes. ♥
you know, before this thread, i didn't even realize that there were people who didn't like terra? i mean, terra is practically riku and everyone loves riku! except, terra is a lot less of a dick
you know, before this thread, i didn't even realize that there were people who didn't like terra? i mean, terra is practically riku and everyone loves riku! except, terra is a lot less of a dick
If Terra was more of a dick, I think he'd be better loved. Or something.
Oh my gosh, Shay, remember when we watched the live stream of Terra's story and when Xehanort took over Terra's body it was literally the WORST thing and we were like NOOOOOO.
then Terra's armor started acting of its own accord and it was like YAY. I miss those days.
#11
- Grand Theft Icon
-
- Group: Global Moderators
- Posts: 2,525
- Joined: 02-October 05
- Gender:Female
- Location:127.0.0.1 (there's no place like it ♡)
Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:22 AM
ahahahahaha, yes! and that guy would yell ENGRISH NO ENGRISH randomly over his playthrough..?
i was so excited about BBS back then. I watched livestreams non stop, practically without sleeping. i almost think the livestreams were more fun than playing the actual game!
i had a soft spot for terra even back then ;__;
my bb why does horrible things happen to youu. nomura just does that, he makes horrible things happen to my favorite characters. ._.
i was so excited about BBS back then. I watched livestreams non stop, practically without sleeping. i almost think the livestreams were more fun than playing the actual game!
i had a soft spot for terra even back then ;__;
my bb why does horrible things happen to youu. nomura just does that, he makes horrible things happen to my favorite characters. ._.
#12
- Fuckin Duke Nukem 4ever, how does it work?
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 7,515
- Joined: 16-September 06
- Location:∵Иೆ!†तっФ」
Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:45 PM
haha oh man.
I remember all the streams when the game was leaked early. And then that one where Vanitas' face was revealed and there was some Korean kid in the background screaming something like "CULPA!!! CULPA!!"
And all the trolling. People saying that Aqua's final boss was an Unversed Kingdom Hearts, haha.
I remember at one point Vanitas' final theme was labelled Eraqus' theme, so I thought that meant Eraqus was evil lol.
But anyway yeah Eraqus is a jerk.
It still pisses me off that even as he's dying he's like "my own heart is darkness."
Like, how could you realize you're wrong and still say something like that? He was blinded by the light, like MX said, not consumed by darkness.
I remember all the streams when the game was leaked early. And then that one where Vanitas' face was revealed and there was some Korean kid in the background screaming something like "CULPA!!! CULPA!!"
And all the trolling. People saying that Aqua's final boss was an Unversed Kingdom Hearts, haha.
I remember at one point Vanitas' final theme was labelled Eraqus' theme, so I thought that meant Eraqus was evil lol.
But anyway yeah Eraqus is a jerk.
It still pisses me off that even as he's dying he's like "my own heart is darkness."
Like, how could you realize you're wrong and still say something like that? He was blinded by the light, like MX said, not consumed by darkness.
#13
- Dual Keyblade Master
-
- Group: KHU Committee
- Posts: 875
- Joined: 02-June 08
- Gender:Male
Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:31 PM
I dunno man, I feel like you're being a little harsh on Master Eraqus. He's a pretty cool guuyy...
I mean sure he might have been a little extreme and even narrow minded, but it's not like his views were without warrant. I mean come on, making the assessment that darkness is inherently evil and light is inherently good is so crazy? I think there's obviously tons of evidence to support that claim; it's what all the obvious signs point to. And sure, maybe that's a bit of oversimplifying/overgeneralizing things, but even as fans I think we could argue that darkness in and of itself is in fact a bad thing. At the very least it's definitely a dangerous thing.
Besides, I think it was pretty clear that even if he was a pretty strict master he was still a pretty kind and loving one. He showed genuine care and concern for all of his pupils, throughout the whole game, treating them like they were his own children. Granted, he might have attempted to kill one or two of them at one point, but... It's not like he was doing it just for the evluz, out of some sadistic glee. He definitely didn't want to do it, seemed kinda hesitatey, even shed a tear!
While it might not have been a move most of our younger and more optimistic (/naive) protagonists would have made, at least not so hastily, I thought of admirable in a weird sense. Who wouldn't do something to try to stop something/someone evil if there were no serious possible negative consequences? That doesn't make you a hero, not especially I don't think. Isn't doing what you think is ultimately right and putting the greater good above your personal feelings and what you personally want, especially when your heart is arguably in the right place for feeling that way (i.e. not wanting to hurt your pupils that you love), what's really heroic?
I mean sure he might have been a little extreme and even narrow minded, but it's not like his views were without warrant. I mean come on, making the assessment that darkness is inherently evil and light is inherently good is so crazy? I think there's obviously tons of evidence to support that claim; it's what all the obvious signs point to. And sure, maybe that's a bit of oversimplifying/overgeneralizing things, but even as fans I think we could argue that darkness in and of itself is in fact a bad thing. At the very least it's definitely a dangerous thing.
Besides, I think it was pretty clear that even if he was a pretty strict master he was still a pretty kind and loving one. He showed genuine care and concern for all of his pupils, throughout the whole game, treating them like they were his own children. Granted, he might have attempted to kill one or two of them at one point, but... It's not like he was doing it just for the evluz, out of some sadistic glee. He definitely didn't want to do it, seemed kinda hesitatey, even shed a tear!
While it might not have been a move most of our younger and more optimistic (/naive) protagonists would have made, at least not so hastily, I thought of admirable in a weird sense. Who wouldn't do something to try to stop something/someone evil if there were no serious possible negative consequences? That doesn't make you a hero, not especially I don't think. Isn't doing what you think is ultimately right and putting the greater good above your personal feelings and what you personally want, especially when your heart is arguably in the right place for feeling that way (i.e. not wanting to hurt your pupils that you love), what's really heroic?
This post has been edited by The 15th Member: 21 February 2012 - 10:34 PM
#14
- Fuckin Duke Nukem 4ever, how does it work?
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 7,515
- Joined: 16-September 06
- Location:∵Иೆ!†तっФ」
Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:00 PM
haha, I know. I'm just picking on Eraqus. It's a justifiable fault and I know he means good, but I just get pissed off about it because when you think about it, he helped contribute to Terra's downfall. He gave him the absolute worst advice:
Rather than making him learn to cope with his natural darkness, to utilize it for good, he made Terra suppress it. This made him more vulnerable, less able to handle the darkness and more conflicted.
I understand where Eraqus is coming from but I just ughhhhhhhh.
It would make me feel a lot better if he actually applied what he learned about Terra to himself, so he would stop thinking in these absolutist terms. Instead he died thinking, OH NO WHAT I DID WAS WRONG THEREFORE I AM DARK.
Also the ethical dilemma between Terra and Eraqus over Ven is a pretty clear cut example of deontology vs utilitarianism. Terra was more concerned about the wrongness of the act itself- killing Ven is bad, period. Eraqus was more concerned about the consequences, about potentially producing the greatest good in that he could prevent the X-Blade from being forged. Eraqus conceded that Terra was right, and I think KH does tend to side with deontology. I don't know why I mentioned that, just sort of interesting to think about.
I think it's because I was thinking of a similar ethical dilemma while watching this episode of Supernatural where Dean wants to save a city rather than prevent a seal of hell from being broken but yeah I'm going to shut up.
Quote
Remember that darkness lurks in every heart. Darkness is our foe. Would
that we could be rid of it. You must destroy it. Push the darkness down--give
it no quarter in your heart.
that we could be rid of it. You must destroy it. Push the darkness down--give
it no quarter in your heart.
Rather than making him learn to cope with his natural darkness, to utilize it for good, he made Terra suppress it. This made him more vulnerable, less able to handle the darkness and more conflicted.
I understand where Eraqus is coming from but I just ughhhhhhhh.
It would make me feel a lot better if he actually applied what he learned about Terra to himself, so he would stop thinking in these absolutist terms. Instead he died thinking, OH NO WHAT I DID WAS WRONG THEREFORE I AM DARK.
Also the ethical dilemma between Terra and Eraqus over Ven is a pretty clear cut example of deontology vs utilitarianism. Terra was more concerned about the wrongness of the act itself- killing Ven is bad, period. Eraqus was more concerned about the consequences, about potentially producing the greatest good in that he could prevent the X-Blade from being forged. Eraqus conceded that Terra was right, and I think KH does tend to side with deontology. I don't know why I mentioned that, just sort of interesting to think about.
I think it's because I was thinking of a similar ethical dilemma while watching this episode of Supernatural where Dean wants to save a city rather than prevent a seal of hell from being broken but yeah I'm going to shut up.
#15
- Dual Keyblade Master
-
- Group: KHU Committee
- Posts: 875
- Joined: 02-June 08
- Gender:Male
Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:58 PM
Yeaaah, I would agree that Eraqus did sorta inadvertently contribute to Terra's whole "downfall". If he'd responded differently to Terra's darkness troubles, he likely could have prevented MX's plans and everything from completely hitting the fan. Of course, stopping that from happening was exactly what he was TRYING to do, his method of fixing the problem just cleeaarly wasn't too effective. Hard to know that at the time though. xD
And with his dying quote, well-- despite the fact that he did end up conceding that maybe trying to kill Ven and Terra wasn't too condone able a decision, I don't think he was ever admitting to the possibility that Terra's darkness wasn't still a problem that needed to be fixed. Pretty sure he was just saying that his brief utilitarian actions weren't actually right and that the end didn't "justify the means" in that case. Because as all good guys (apparently) know, evil can be defeated without actually stooping to doing something remotely morally questionable!
Also: hey, I'm glad you did mention the whole deontology vs utilitarianism thing! That's really what I was sorta getting at, I just didn't think of the technical words themselves. But yeah, that's why I was a bit pleasantly surprised to see Eraqus try to kill Ven, because it was so... un-KH-ish for a supposedly good guy. In the end, of course, Eraqus reversed his opinion on the matter though. Still, I don't think I could definitely condemn his first choice as a wrong one. It was "kill Ven or have Master Xehanort (in short) use him to basically destroy the entire freaking universe".
And with his dying quote, well-- despite the fact that he did end up conceding that maybe trying to kill Ven and Terra wasn't too condone able a decision, I don't think he was ever admitting to the possibility that Terra's darkness wasn't still a problem that needed to be fixed. Pretty sure he was just saying that his brief utilitarian actions weren't actually right and that the end didn't "justify the means" in that case. Because as all good guys (apparently) know, evil can be defeated without actually stooping to doing something remotely morally questionable!
Also: hey, I'm glad you did mention the whole deontology vs utilitarianism thing! That's really what I was sorta getting at, I just didn't think of the technical words themselves. But yeah, that's why I was a bit pleasantly surprised to see Eraqus try to kill Ven, because it was so... un-KH-ish for a supposedly good guy. In the end, of course, Eraqus reversed his opinion on the matter though. Still, I don't think I could definitely condemn his first choice as a wrong one. It was "kill Ven or have Master Xehanort (in short) use him to basically destroy the entire freaking universe".
#16
- "The true successor to the Azure Grimore"
-
- Group: KHU Committee
- Posts: 968
- Joined: 21-February 12
- Gender:Male
- Location:Florida
Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:05 PM
Yeah, its so sad. Terra either had to let his best friend die or to kill his master/father. I actually felt bad for Terra on that part
#17
- Fuckin Duke Nukem 4ever, how does it work?
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 7,515
- Joined: 16-September 06
- Location:∵Иೆ!†तっФ」
Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:23 AM
The 15th Member, on 22 February 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:
Yeaaah, I would agree that Eraqus did sorta inadvertently contribute to Terra's whole "downfall". If he'd responded differently to Terra's darkness troubles, he likely could have prevented MX's plans and everything from completely hitting the fan. Of course, stopping that from happening was exactly what he was TRYING to do, his method of fixing the problem just cleeaarly wasn't too effective. Hard to know that at the time though. xD
And with his dying quote, well-- despite the fact that he did end up conceding that maybe trying to kill Ven and Terra wasn't too condone able a decision, I don't think he was ever admitting to the possibility that Terra's darkness wasn't still a problem that needed to be fixed. Pretty sure he was just saying that his brief utilitarian actions weren't actually right and that the end didn't "justify the means" in that case. Because as all good guys (apparently) know, evil can be defeated without actually stooping to doing something remotely morally questionable!
Also: hey, I'm glad you did mention the whole deontology vs utilitarianism thing! That's really what I was sorta getting at, I just didn't think of the technical words themselves. But yeah, that's why I was a bit pleasantly surprised to see Eraqus try to kill Ven, because it was so... un-KH-ish for a supposedly good guy. In the end, of course, Eraqus reversed his opinion on the matter though. Still, I don't think I could definitely condemn his first choice as a wrong one. It was "kill Ven or have Master Xehanort (in short) use him to basically destroy the entire freaking universe".
And with his dying quote, well-- despite the fact that he did end up conceding that maybe trying to kill Ven and Terra wasn't too condone able a decision, I don't think he was ever admitting to the possibility that Terra's darkness wasn't still a problem that needed to be fixed. Pretty sure he was just saying that his brief utilitarian actions weren't actually right and that the end didn't "justify the means" in that case. Because as all good guys (apparently) know, evil can be defeated without actually stooping to doing something remotely morally questionable!
Also: hey, I'm glad you did mention the whole deontology vs utilitarianism thing! That's really what I was sorta getting at, I just didn't think of the technical words themselves. But yeah, that's why I was a bit pleasantly surprised to see Eraqus try to kill Ven, because it was so... un-KH-ish for a supposedly good guy. In the end, of course, Eraqus reversed his opinion on the matter though. Still, I don't think I could definitely condemn his first choice as a wrong one. It was "kill Ven or have Master Xehanort (in short) use him to basically destroy the entire freaking universe".
You're right, though I don't understand why Eraqus couldn't see it. He knew darkness was coursing through Terra's veins at that point (I mean it was visibly manifesting itself as an aura lol), and yet he still conceded that Terra was in the right. I figured that even if he didn't explicitly say anything he would have drawn the connection that evil intentions and darkness do not necessarily go hand in hand. And yet his comments about himself says that he learned nothing, or at least not as much as he should have. :/
But yeah, really want to see more of that kind of conflict in the future. I know that light=evil has become itself sort of a cliche trope but I think it could work well in the KH series.
LoveIsOver, on 22 February 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:
Yeah, its so sad. Terra either had to let his best friend die or to kill his master/father. I actually felt bad for Terra on that part
Yeah, I felt bad, but I also felt good for him, because I think that's one of the only times in the game that he finally got to stand up for something that he believed in. It's just unfortunate that it played into MX's plans.
#18
- "The true successor to the Azure Grimore"
-
- Group: KHU Committee
- Posts: 968
- Joined: 21-February 12
- Gender:Male
- Location:Florida
Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:06 PM
well maybe he can make up his mistakes as a Keyblade Wielder in KH 3D
#19
- It's time to kick ass n' chew bubble gum
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 3,811
- Joined: 26-February 06
- Gender:Female
- Location:Traverse Town Hotel. I charge $120/night for the Green Room
Posted 26 February 2012 - 05:58 PM
Shay, on 19 February 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:
you know, before this thread, i didn't even realize that there were people who didn't like terra? i mean, terra is practically riku and everyone loves riku! except, terra is a lot less of a dick
he's a bit more naive than riku, and has more optimism i think! he reminds me of zack from ff7 ♥
mostly i just see a good person there.
he's a bit more naive than riku, and has more optimism i think! he reminds me of zack from ff7 ♥
mostly i just see a good person there.
Having Jason Dohring voice Terra certainly didn't help. Yea, I know I'm opening up a can of worms, but when you don't make comparisons between Terra and Riku: Dohring vs. Gallagher comes to mind.
I feel ambivalent about Eraqus. Knowing what happened later as we did, you can argue every which way how close-minded and obstinate he was. He reminds me of a military commander--playing by the books and sacrificing for the greater good. Let's say he did kill Ven. You think he'd regret his decision afterwards?
How about Aqua? What kind of decision would she make in the same situation?
#20
- "The true successor to the Azure Grimore"
-
- Group: KHU Committee
- Posts: 968
- Joined: 21-February 12
- Gender:Male
- Location:Florida
Posted 26 February 2012 - 06:14 PM
sakuchan, on 26 February 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:
Having Jason Dohring voice Terra certainly didn't help. Yea, I know I'm opening up a can of worms, but when you don't make comparisons between Terra and Riku: Dohring vs. Gallagher comes to mind.
I feel ambivalent about Eraqus. Knowing what happened later as we did, you can argue every which way how close-minded and obstinate he was. He reminds me of a military commander--playing by the books and sacrificing for the greater good. Let's say he did kill Ven. You think he'd regret his decision afterwards?
How about Aqua? What kind of decision would she make in the same situation?
I feel ambivalent about Eraqus. Knowing what happened later as we did, you can argue every which way how close-minded and obstinate he was. He reminds me of a military commander--playing by the books and sacrificing for the greater good. Let's say he did kill Ven. You think he'd regret his decision afterwards?
How about Aqua? What kind of decision would she make in the same situation?
Eraqus actually did regret trying to kill Ventus after Terra beat him in the duel. He would probably grew closer to the darkness if he'd actually kill Ventus, so thats why he was happy/sad when Terra stopped him. As for Aqua, I think she would crack under the pressure of either killing Ventus or letting him live. I mean Ventus, Aqua, and Terra have been friends for a long time and the emotions and memories of it would probably hold her back from killing Ventus. (Btw, not related to the forum but I love your work on the Podcast! Zipperz and Beltz!)
#21
- Dual Keyblade Master
-
- Group: KHU Committee
- Posts: 722
- Joined: 27-February 12
Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:11 AM
In my opinion, Terra is a hero. He's a guy that's trying to save his friends and I believe he is kind of like a dynamic character.
#22
- Dual Keyblade Master
-
- Group: KHU Committee
- Posts: 915
- Joined: 27-February 12
- Gender:Male
Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:18 AM
Terra is a hero. What hero doesn't have hardships?
#23
- Keyblade Master
-
- Group: KHU Committee
- Posts: 360
- Joined: 14-September 06
- Gender:Male
- Location:USA
Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:45 AM
Terra is a hero. He just got dope by Xehanort. Sort of like Knuckles with Dr. Eggman.
#24
- Dual Keyblade Master
-
- Group: KHU Committee
- Posts: 915
- Joined: 27-February 12
- Gender:Male
Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:02 PM
Doped really hard. Xehanort won him over with Master Terra.
#25
- Wooden Sword Wielder
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 04-March 12
- Gender:Male
Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:07 PM
terra's a hero but i understand what you're saying. I wouldn't really call him weak because of his darkness, he just doesn't understand how to control it.
